Echo Hub

I’m not sure I really understand this line of thinking. Just because you can go too far with something doesn’t mean that the whole thought process is useless and should be discarded. For instance, I think every church that ever wants to reach people under the age of 100 needs a website. There’s just no “How dare you” there. It’s not coherent.

So what really happens is that it’s a cost-benefit calculation. A website is cheap and has huge benefits, so it’s a no-brainer. An iPad wall is very expensive, and has few tangible benefits (and maybe some costs from people who feel that this is an example of the church losing sight of its core mission). There’s no “How dare you” there, just a serious question about if this is a good use of resources.

I would say it’s not, but some would disagree. But there’s no need to make this into an infinite regress: being good stewards is something that we don’t have to all agree about, but it isn’t stupid to think that way.

I think “How dare you” is a glass half empty approach to a process that is actually important. What if the question went something like this:

“What does it say about the nature of God, His redemptive plan, and the part that we play in it when we spend money on (insert item here)?”

I think when the answer clearly is in line with the mission of the church then go ahead and spend the money.

I couldn’t agree with you more. Amen. The question is too often how dare you.. When it should be what is God telling me to do. We often focus on what others are doing and become the judge on whether that is the right decision to make with money. I think instead we should focus on what God is telling us to do and go for it. Then the “How Dare You” question is irrelevant. Instead we accountable to God and not the judge of others.

Should there be accountability and good stewardship? Yes. But explain to me why God wanted Gold plated everything in the temple. We don’t question it because God told them to do it. If we truly hear from God then the How Dare You disappears.

I know what you mean but I would assume that there is someone out there who thinks a website is a frivolous expense that God does not “require” to reach people under the age of 100. The cost to benefit is crucial to ministry but someone will always take it too far.

Judas said “How dare you!” when Mary poured the expensive perfume on Jesus’ feet. #extravagantworship
#John12

Sup Tim Dees!! Miss u bro. it’s been too long. =)

actually, the church didn’t spend that much money. the iPads were already owned and donated from members for the week. they didn’t even have budget to buy video content to play and had to resort to free loops found on various websites. Very impressive innovation, simply using what they already had.

Well touche then sir. If it didn’t really cost anything, then I’m not sure how you could really object to it.

Good to hear from you, Proctor!

Come back to nashville sometime, we’ll build our own!

I don’t want to be a Judas.

ooohhhh…good one. I don’t want to be Judas either. I’ve heard it put this way. The difference between judgment and discernment is that discernment questions the subjective…what is seen, written, or heard, and judgment questions the objective…the intent, the motive, and the heart. The discerning comments (although sometimes hard to hear) do not bother me, but when intent, motive, or heart are questioned we make ourselves God. We do not know, nor can we judge, what God has called someone else to do unless it is against the laws of God or the laws of the authority which God has called us to live under.

WOW!
I’m the Director of Worship Arts & Integrated Communications at Salem Lutheran Church… This new role (combining Worship, Communication, IT, & Production) was part of massive re-org – all part of making sure that the impact of our church continues in our community beyond the 165 years we’ve already been here.

I want to clarify a couple of things, add some actual facts into the mix which will either strengthen some of your opinions… or perhaps in the case of others – put some other things to rest… or not. At least I know that it’s not just Lutherans who seem to needlessly tear each other apart. I was starting to think we were alone in that. (Sad)

Salem Lutheran School, a K-8 private school in Northwest Houston, is working diligently toward, among other things, becoming an Apple Distinguished School.

Besides having 140 Air Books for our 6-8 Graders, 60 iTouch learning devices for our Pre-K and K age kids, our school also has the 30 iPads and 30 iPad2… already. We didn’t buy them. We didn’t borrow them from members. Our school tuition and fundraisers paid for them. They were all, as previously mentioned, going to sit, unused for 2 weeks during Christmas Vacation.

So… in the “How Dare You ______ Game” -
We are guilty of using what we already had when it wasn’t being used for anything else.

It doesn’t take long to rack up some man hours when your church is driven my an Eph 4. model that believes in “equipping the saints for their acts of service”. When you have 54 volunteers at church for 2 different 2 hour rehearsals… and another 1 hour tech rehearsal… by sheer volume it adds up fast. But these volunteers were there a couple of weekday nights. They would have otherwise not been involved… which means they would have otherwise not been as excited about their part in what was a fantastic worship service.

I’ll bet those 54 people talked about what their church was doing on Christmas Eve…. and while they may not all be at the point of talking someone through a “plan of salvation” or- they felt excited enough to talk about their church and what we were doing to tell others about it – trusting that we would make the gospel clear during the rest of the service. (We did.)

So… in the “How Dare You ______ Game” -
We are guilty of including more volunteers in a single worship element than we had ever done before. Not more than we’ve used in a worship service – we’re close to 100+ every week by the time you count parking crew, ushers, greeters, technicians, singers, band members, communion attendants, communion prep, etc. – more in a single element.

Someone mentioned in a post awhile back that perhaps there might have been a missional effort in reaching out to someone from another country. The guy that we found happens to be from Istanbul, Turkey. He happens to be a Muslim. We invited him to come over and spend the week with us helping to get it all ready. We hosted him very well. We gave him a Quest Bible and a Salem T-Shirt to help always remember “where he was and why he was there”. I did a face time conversation with him 2 nights ago. He and his wife are reading that Bible. It is very “educatable” he said…

So – in the “How Dare You ______ Game” –
We are guilty of getting airfare donated, putting a Muslim man in a Christian man’s home for a week, hosting him well, making History telling His Story, giving him a Bible, including him in my family’s Christmas Dinner, and paying him for his time. (A Fraction, literally, of what they first wanted because they so wanted to be a part of this idea.)

We made the holders out of common every day materials we got at Wal*Mart for about $2.97 each. We still own them. We will use them again.

So – in the “How Dare You ______ Game” –
We are guilty of being VERY thrifty and pretty creative to use something cheap and not paying $35+ dollars a piece for iPad Holders…

We played the TSO “Carol of the Bells” because we knew we could. We had so many other variables that we wanted to know that there was at least ONE thing that we would be able to nail. When you’re doing something that’s never been done before… you have to invent EVERYTHING, discover what you didn’t know needed to be discovered, realize what has never been realized…

So – in the “How Dare You _____ Game” -
We are guilty, ironically, of playing it safe. We already knew that. It was the ONLY thing we knew going into that element.

By the way… in the an attempt to actually make an impact in the world – we give supplies to wounded US soldiers, feed hungry people in our Town, put coats on cold people in our city, drill water wells in Honduras, share the gospel with 48,000 people as they go through our vision clinics in Kenya, we’re working on stamping out Malaria by supplying mosquito nets in Kenya as well… it goes on and on.

What’s crazy, honestly, is that we did this iPad thing for fun, ’cause we could, ’cause we thought of it… for Jesus. Because it had never been done before. Because if it was going to be done – it SHOULD be done in a church.

From Him and through Him ALL things were made that have been made.
I believe Him. This is already His anyway. We chose to give it back.

How Dare we….

Point. Set. Match. Thanks for standing up against the detractors to what you guys did at Christmas.

That’s exactly what I wrote in the comments in that other thread

“…But Jesus was present and she wanted to honor him. And when you gather to worship, Jesus is present there, too.

I don’t know this situation well enough to judge it. But I do know that our God is not a good of efficiency. If he was, he wouldn’t still be waiting – inefficiently – for us to bring the kingdom to Earth before bringing about the end times. …”